Re: Proposal to Change CATs Ownership

Matthew Sykes <matthew.sykes@...>

This has as much to do with finding the "right" place for the CATS as it
does anything else. The CATS are the end-to-end acceptance tests that are
associated with what used to be called `cf-release` - the thing that
(before we spread our bits across 20+ releases) actually represented what
Cloud Foundry was. Not only does it reflect the target environment, it
tries to ensure that the primary developer experience, the cf cli,
continues to function correctly.

Now that all of the things that used to be part of the coherent, versioned,
collection of components have been spread to the wind, it's probably best
to make the CATS an independent release too.

Basically, I also believe that it's inappropriate to pull them into the
CAPI releases; they have as much to do with the CLI, Diego, LAM, and
Routing teams as they do with CAPI.

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Utako Ueda <uueda(a)> wrote:

To address your concerns, Mike:

I think there's a solution here that won't hinder people from contributing
to CATs. Contributing to CATs won't necessarily change from the perspective
of those who already have push access. Your changes would make their way
through the CAPI pipeline first, get bumped within capi-release in a manner
similar to how we currently bump cloud_controller_ng, before getting bumped
to cf-release develop. This means you could potentially fork just the CATs
repo and push to it. Our CI pipeline would take the responsibility of
pointing capi-release to the correct SHA of its submoduled CATs.

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mike Youngstrom <youngm(a)>

I don't have any show stopping cases. But, my 2 main concerns are:

* Conceptually speaking if the CATS are for all will making them part of
capi hinder other teams from contributing to it?

* Having the CATs part of CAPI will require me to fork CAPI when I need
to fix/customize a test specific to our environment, something we
frequently need to do. Long term I'd prefer to fork a smaller more single
purpose release when these situations arise.


On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Utako Ueda <uueda(a)> wrote:

We had a series of meetings to figure out a good path for CATs that
ranged from multiple teams to smaller groups. We met most recently to
address concerns that include the following:

• Workflow and Release Bumping Issues: CATs relies on calls to specific
versions of CC API to run successfully. The CAPI CI currently bumps
cloud_controller_ng within capi-release, and on a successful run of CATs
(which lives on cf-release develop), capi-release then gets bumped in
cf-release develop. This leads to a "chicken and egg" scenario, in that
when changes are made to both CATs and CC, both cf-release and capi
pipelines are broken until a manual fix is made.
• In a world where cf-release no longer exists, how do we ensure CATs
uses the correct versions of the CF CLI and CC API?

tl;dr: Though not all of the CATs test the CC API explicitly, they all
make use of the CC API and therefore make CC a choke point. Having CATs as
a separate release may be a good idea, but doesn't necessarily address the
strong coupling issues.

We'd like to know if there are specific cases in which this will be
detrimental to other projects' workflows before moving forward.

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Michael Fraenkel <
michael.fraenkel(a)> wrote:

Can you explain why CATs should live under CAPI?
CATs now represents acceptance test for all of the Cloud Foundry
function driven mainly via the CLI.
Tieing this to any one release seems a bit artificial.
CATs is about testing the aggregation of all the various releases not
just CAPI.

I am more surprised that it wasn't suggested to be its own release
which dictated the versions for all releases that had passed.

- Michael

On 3/22/16 3:05 AM, Utako Ueda wrote:

Hi all,

The CAPI team would like to take ownership of the CF acceptance tests
<> and include
them as part of CAPI release

This solves several pain points we've experienced over the last few
months, mainly due to the strong coupling between CATs and the Cloud
Controller API.

Our plan is to submodule the CATs repo in to CAPI release, and bump
CATs on a successful run through the CAPI ci pipeline. At this point, CAPI
release will be bumped in cf-release develop, which other teams will
consume for their own testing purposes.

We hope to make these changes in the near future as we wrap up our
release extraction from cf-release. We'd like to know if any teams have any
concerns about this before we proceed, so do let us know as soon as
possible so we can address them.

Utako, CF CAPI Team

Matthew Sykes

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